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Author Topic: Speaker's Corner  (Read 1049 times)
Mnementh
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« on: July 19, 2007, 05:04:33 pm »

I was just recently in London, and in a small area in Hyde Park they have this place called Speaker's Corner.  It is a place where people come and set up their little stepladders and simply start talking (or yelling) about whatever is on their mind.  People gather around to listen and when something is said they don't agree with, a discussion ensues.  I spent an entire afternoon there discussing, arguing, debating...it was a blast.  One thing that really impressed me was that no matter now emotionally charged the discussion became, it never turned personal.  There were no insults, threats, personal attacks, etc...it was all done in a mature and respectful way. 

So, in the spirit of this experience, I thought it might be fun to create a similar place here.  A place where people can come and expound upon anything that might be on their mind...be it politics, philosophy, current events, etc.  The only expectation is that everyone refrain from insults and personal attacks.  If you can't make your argument without insulting or putting down the other person, then your argument is weak and you should take some time to rethink it. Posts that contain such attacks will be immediately deleted and if it continues, then the offender will be banned from this area.
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Zeradul
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2007, 08:28:17 pm »

I think this is a great idea!

In addition I had to take a screenshot of Mnem's post for posterity!  I have been looking forward to a and personal attack free Mnem for YEARS!!!!

Welcome back man!  cool cool cool

You get 7/7 Shox's !!

 afro afro afro afro afro afro afro
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"If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table." - old legal aphorism
DragonMage
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2007, 09:01:19 pm »

AVAST, I PERSONALLY ATTACK THEE, MNEM! WHAT SAY YOU NOW!
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wargasm
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2007, 07:18:08 am »

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There were no insults, threats, personal attacks, etc...it was all done in a mature and respectful way.

say no more?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakers'_Corner
"anyone can turn up unannounced and talk on almost any subject, though they are likely to be heckled by regulars."

http://www.timeout.com/london/features/2244.html
"Glasgow-born Nikolai Segura has been coming to Speakers’ Corner on-and-off for seven years, and then on a weekly basis for the last 12 months, during which time he’s become one of the Corner’s regular hecklers. ‘I’ve been heckling for a year,’ he says. ‘It makes a show for the crowd, but it also sends the message that this is a place that exemplifies freedom of speech.’"

I say good chap but it 'twould appear to me that by threatening deletions and bannings that you are contradicting the very principles of free speech that Speaker's Corner espouses.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heckle
verb (used with object) 1. to harass (a public speaker, performer, etc.) with impertinent questions, gibes, or the like; badger.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/harass
1. to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute. 
2. to trouble by repeated attacks, incursions, etc., as in war or hostilities; harry; raid. 


but then mayhap I have spoken too soon and you are truly and honestly modeling this section on the authentic Speaker's Corner...
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/blackchip/summerinthepark.htm
"Forget any idea that this really free speech, the police monitor what is going on and will swiftly pounce of anyone they feel is being too offensive or seditious or foul-mouthed."

after all, the speaker's were given their corner to keep them from rioting as they'd done in times of olde, snap snap, grin grin, wink wink, nudge nudge, say...no...more!


cheerio guvnor!


p.s. mind if I pinch a fag?
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Mnementh
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2007, 04:31:26 pm »

There is a serious difference between heckling someone to incite discussion and calling them a "shitcunt".  I saw that often when I was there, a call from the crowd, "Awww...you're talking out your arse!!"  With a reply, "How so, friend?  How can I be wrong when this and that and this and that proves what I'm saying is true?!?!"  Then, the heckler would offer his opposing viewpoint...that is NOT what happens generally when we get into heated discussions on this board, and THAT is what I'm hoping to inspire here.

And yes, there were many police there.  Yet they were far from the crowd and would come and go...also, I was there a day after the car bombs were found, so there were friggen' police everywhere!  There were some very heated debates going on, with some yelling, footstomping, etc...but the police did nothing.  I would think they are there to perform a very similar function that DD and I are taking...when people start to cross the line and become offensive and demeaning they are no longer being a positive contributing force to the discussion, and should be removed.

But the problem here War is that I'm basing this on an experience I had, not a definition found on the internet.  I'm not trying to make this a last bastion of free speech...I'm just trying to recreate an experience that I had and that meant a lot to me.  If you do not want to be a part of this, then by all means, don't post here.  You are just as welcome as anyone else, but if you can't put forth your point in a mature and respectful manner, then your post is going to be deleted.
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wargasm
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2007, 05:35:34 pm »

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There is a serious difference between heckling someone to incite discussion and calling them a "shitcunt".
no there isn't.  there's a conditioned response that certain words illicit because it's easier for the person the words are directed at to play the "victim" card when "vulgarity" is used.  words themselves are of equal weight based on their intent.  the word vulgar means "the common people", a people the original Speaker's Corner was established to give a voice to without regard for their erudition or lack thereof.  if I call you a shitcunt, for instance, it means no more to me than to call you a fool other than a slight increase in entertainment value.  the point is the intent.  using either term I'm telling you you're full of shit.  enter the "victim" card.  you can cry foul because one term was used as opposed to the other when in reality neither word affected you more and you know it.

so now you decide what words can and can't be used against you in the manner fitting of a right prig, congrats.  but really, I'm glad you finally made a special place for yourself where you can feel safe on the internet.  laugh how empowering.  the best part is that you can decide if this is all a personal attack on you or not!

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But the problem here War is that I'm basing this on an experience I had, not a definition found on the internet.
maybe you should call this section "mnem's experience with Speaker's Corner" then, because calling it "Speaker's Corner" is a mockery.  oh, and those "internet definitions"?  c'mon guy... that was other people's experiences.  how crass to act like yours is the only valid one.

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  I'm not trying to make this a last bastion of free speech
of course not.  you wouldn't feel safe then LOL.



R.I.P.
Lenny Bruce
Bill Hicks
Sam Kinison
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Mnementh
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2007, 06:11:35 pm »

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there's a conditioned response that certain words illicit because it's easier for the person the words are directed at to play the "victim" card when "vulgarity" is used.

That's a cheap excuse used by people who tend to be overly offensive to put the onus of their offensiveness on someone else, instead of themselves.  Words can cause pain and hurt regardless of their intent, and to refuse to take responsibility for that is nothing more than cowardice.

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but really, I'm glad you finally made a special place for yourself where you can feel safe on the internet.

Actually, War, this was created in order to offer people on this forum a safe place to discuss things where they don't have to worry about being personally attacked for their views.  Again, if you cannot properly defend your stance or point without resorting to name calling, then your point was weak to begin with because all you're doing is diverting attention away from the topic and targeting the person you disagree with.  If you tell someone their point is stupid and baseless then you're really not attacking that person, you're attacking their point.  Do you see the nuance there?  Of course we're not going to moderate and delete every little barb that someone utters in some attempt to sanitize the internet...use a little more imagination, please.

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maybe you should call this section "mnem's experience with Speaker's Corner" then, because calling it "Speaker's Corner" is a mockery

I'm calling it Speaker's Corner because that is where my experience was had.  And if you feel as though it is a mockery...great!  But just because you feel so doesn't mean that I am going to or should rename this because obviously my intent is not to recreate the real Speaker's Corner, as here we have the safety of anonymity and distance, whereas at Speaker's Corner you are directly in front of the person you're disagreeing with.  So it would be impossible to recreate that experience here.

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oh, and those "internet definitions"?  c'mon guy... that was other people's experiences

Reread your post, War, there are two definitions on there pal.  Also, the personal experiences that you referred to were very similar to mine!  So how was I acting like mine was the only one to be had?  I specifically said that there was heckling, and gave a rough example of one that I saw.......so how is that being crass when I'm actually agreeing with you?!?!? 

I'm not discounting anyone's experiences there, I only spent ONE DAY there.  I was inspired by what I saw there, the amount of respect people gave to each other, the exchange of values and beliefs, the emotion...it was amazing.  I wished we had something similar to that here, hence my creating of this sub-forum.  While I appreciate and understand where your critique is coming from, it doesn't change the fact that this is how I decided to set this up, and it all boils down to, once again, if this is not a place you want to come, then don't come here.  I set this up this way based on my experiences HERE, in this forum, where there sometimes is a certain lack of respect that we give each other and I was hoping to avoid some of that by threatening to delete disrespectful posts.

I hope you do participate here though, as this conversation is a perfect of example of how well you can put forth an argument without having to refer to your typical taunts.

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DragonMage
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2007, 07:30:20 pm »

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joel
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2007, 01:04:03 am »

Jeebus, war getting all hungup on semantics and Mne is being an anti-semantic bastard.
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Mnementh
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2007, 01:16:35 am »

I DON'T HATE THE JEWS!!!!  SHEESH!!!
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