The Bible is really not the GOOD book you think it is.

[Ruckus]

lemme clarify, his "political outreach" is at the same level. 

And that James idiot got served hard by Chris Mathews. Notice how right after that the White house ran from it ? Funny shit.

[kai]

Rev Wright is a hateful man and on the same level.

[Zeradul]

I'm sorry, Ruck, but comparing some of the things that Hagee has said to the comments made by Reverend Wright is just ignorant.  Calling the Catholic Church "the great whore" is nothing like calling America to task for the violence it has spread throughout history in all corners of the world or how it has treated African Americans.

Well said!  What's funny about the Rev. Wright nonsense, is that almost noone knows that he gave that speech in 2001, shortly after 9/11.  C'mon, stressful times people, and I think it's fine that church officials talk about current events, and Rev. Wright was MOSTLY correct in his analogy.  He did go on to say some odd things after talking about "chickens coming home to roost" but, that clip that is played over and over most is the one that he's right about what he's saying.

The idea that 9/11 was caused by something other than retaliation for our inappropriate involvement in the middle east for the last 60 years is just absurd.  I mean, we DESTROYED a democracy to install the Shah of Iran.  FFS.  Yea, NOW lets bring democracy to the middle east, 50 years after we squashed it.

[kai]

we destroyed a weak democracy that was at risk of being an easy target for the USSR's expansionist policy:

• It had huge oil reserves
• It had recently NATIONALIZED (Communisty) its oil production, dramatically reducing its production because they didn't have experienced technicians. This caused a crisis in which British companies lost their investment (money, jobs, and infrastructure) in Iran.
• It had a large Communist Party presence already
• History could repeat itself: This country had sympathized with Nazis and would have provided them oil if the Allies allowed it

Also, this was a British initiative, and the US owed Britian for its support in Korean War.

The Shahs, while admittedly dictators, under the influence of the West brought about changes in Iran including suffrage, divorce, and education rights for women, improved education, and greater equality than before.

[Ruckus]

   Do you even think before you spew anymore?  You remind me of that radio asshole Kevin James

nice mnem  !!

[Zeradul]

we destroyed a weak democracy that was at risk of being an easy target for the USSR's expansionist policy:

Ooooh, oooh, because expansionist policies are bad for world peace right?   Wait.......

It had huge oil reserves

So did/does the USSR

It had recently NATIONALIZED (Communisty) its oil production, dramatically reducing its production because they didn't have experienced technicians. This caused a crisis in which British companies lost their investment (money, jobs, and infrastructure) in Iran.

Good, so a drastically lower amount of oil could be sent to aid a country already rich in oil?  British companies lost their investment after a democracy took back what was rightfully the Iranians?  Boo-fuckin-Hoo.

It had a large Communist Party presence already

A communist party within a Democracy!  Great!  Let THEM decide for THEMSELVES, how to be governed because god damn we'd be IRATE if some foreign power tried to determine for US who we should be able to vote for. (or NOT be able to vote for)

History could repeat itself: This country had sympathized with Nazis and would have provided them oil if the Allies allowed it

Meh.  It's not our place to be replacing governments that MIGHT not be fully loyal to us.  FFS where would it end?

Also, this was a British initiative, and the US owed Britian for its support in Korean War.

Oh you mean, the police action in Korea?  We never declared War before going into Korea, so it really shouldn't be called the Korean War.  Just like every military action since WWII, we've never had the balls or the respect for the Constitution to declare war.

The Shahs, while admittedly dictators, under the influence of the West brought about changes in Iran including suffrage, divorce, and education rights for women, improved education, and greater equality than before.

Ahh, influence from the West, yes, but not a result of the hated Shahs being in power.  Had we not killed their democracy, change would have come MUCH quicker.  It's the nature of any true democracy.

I appreciate how well you've laid out our injustices against the Iranians, and how that treatment was viewed by the middle east in general.  No wonder 9/11 happened.

I wonder what will come of all our current involvement in the middle east?  If they didn't like their Democracy being crushed, I wonder how they'll historically view 5+ years of occupation, and a another form of government forced on them?  Well I'm glad we'll never run out of money to keep patrolling our 150+ nation EMPIRE.  WAITE..........  Every empire that has ever existed ended when the money ran out.  Oh SHIT........

[Ruckus]