May 22, 2012, 04:09:53 pm
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Author Topic: Texas sized stupidity  (Read 1287 times)
Ruckus
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« on: July 19, 2008, 10:21:38 am »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25742567/

I wonder if they will offer Kuran classes too .....


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joel
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2008, 09:55:04 pm »

Since it's an elective and doesn't preach the faith, I don't mind it as an educational class. If they were forcing it upon them, making it a required course, then I'd have major issues with it.
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Mnementh
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2008, 10:03:35 pm »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25742567/

I wonder if they will offer Kuran classes too .....

Do you mean the Qur'an or the Koran?  Or is Kuran a Disney character in another one of their racist movies?

I also don't understand why it is "stupid" to teach "the history and literature of the Bible without preaching or disparaging any faith."  I mean, wouldn't the real stupidity be to remain ignorant of the cultural and historical significance of a book such as the Bible?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 10:09:32 pm by Mnementh » Logged
Ruckus
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2008, 11:05:58 pm »

I just hope the craziness and absurdities are taught right along side the good stuff. But of course they never are ... and its the Koran (Qu'ran also)   spell check FAIL on my part. And the book of mormon too, lets not leave that one out.
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DragonMage
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2008, 04:09:22 pm »

Mark Chancey, associate professor in religious studies at Southern Methodist University, has studied Bible classes already offered in about 25 districts for the Texas Freedom Network.

The study found most of the courses were explicitly devotional with almost exclusively Christian, usually Protestant, perspectives.

It also found that most were taught by teachers with no academic training in biblical, religious or theological studies and who were not familiar with the issues of separation of church and state.

"Some classes promote creation science. Some classes denigrate Judaism. Some classes explicitly encourage students to convert to Christianity or to adopt Christian devotional practices," Chancey said. "This is all well documented, and the board knows it."



That's the problem with it. They aren't just teaching the history and content.
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stas
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2008, 04:51:37 pm »

I think Ruck and DM need some religious training.
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Commie don't play dat!

Mnementh
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2008, 06:26:10 pm »

Yes, DM, then that is a problem if they are being taught in such a manner....especially if they are being taught in public schools.  But it is possible to teach the bible in a way that is totally objective, and I think that it would be a valuable class if taught so. 
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DragonMage
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2008, 02:21:04 am »

Yes, DM, then that is a problem if they are being taught in such a manner....especially if they are being taught in public schools.  But it is possible to teach the bible in a way that is totally objective, and I think that it would be a valuable class if taught so. 

I'm not arguing that the bible can't be taught in an objective, constructive manner. What I'm saying is, it is stated clearly in the article that the classes aren't being used properly. Which is indeed "stupid"!

So don't be gettin all up on what you thought was a snake when it was really just a garden hose gettin all wiggly jiggly when someone turned the water on!
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Ruckus
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2008, 02:38:18 pm »

  [/quote] So don't be gettin all up on what you thought was a snake when it was really just a garden hose gettin all wiggly jiggly when someone turned the water on!
[/quote]

LOLOLOLOL   like a mexican on a snake !!
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DragonMage
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2008, 03:16:34 am »

hahaha what's UP MY MAN
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Zeradul
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2008, 07:11:24 am »

Quote
But it is possible to teach the bible in a way that is totally objective, and I think that it would be a valuable class if taught so. 
But Mnem, there is literally noone who could "teach the bible in an objective way", and yes, you and I could find someone who we could agree on, but there would be some sect out there who would disagree with our definition of "objective", because again, their interpretation of the Bible would be too different than to be compatible with our definition of "objective".

Also, there isn't a whole lot of actual history surrounding the bible.  Most of the "history" that does exist is speculation as to who exactly were the editors who decided what would be included in the Bible and what would not be included.  There is still alot of debate as to exactly who these people were.  It is believed that they voted on which parts to keep and which parts to leave out, but  it is not known exactly how this was done, and certainly not how much of a majority was needed to keep a certain section in, nor how these people were selected for the Bible editors committee, etc.

The great majority of the content of the Bible itself were merely coincidences of what was being preached in the centers of Christianity at the same time period.  The similarities in the stories were eventually edited down into one version and then of that material, some of it made it into the bible, and some was voted out.

But that's really it for the history.  Now I suppose you could look at what lead to certain things being preached at given times, but that becomes even more speculative, and lesser known.  I do however think the most interesting thing would be to go through and discuss what was left out of the Bible, and really think about why it was left out.  Keep in mind, this group of editors were very successful from a results standpoint (roughly 2 Billion Christians on the planet) and so there was definitely some serious forethought into what should stay in the Bible and what should go.  Studying what was voted out would be a fascinating look at fashioning a successful religion.

As far as the content of the Bible containing history, really, there's no significant historic events with dates or references, so it's not like the Bible is ever used as a historic reference.  The people who try to take it literally as a historic record and claim that Noah's flood carved the Grand Canyon (because the Colorado certainly could not carve it in the mere 6,000 years of earth's existence) really aren't taken seriously by any of the mainstream religious community, and certainly not by anyone who is educated.  Again, the "grand canyon" crazies are just the "Intelligent Design" morons who see "Intelligent Design" as a way of getting religion back into the classroom and therefore save their religion.  But again, they are the extreme minority of those who are religious.  I still to this day have never met anyone who would argue that the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's flood, and that includes my Priest in rural Wi.

And to bring this back to the original point.  The above description would be someone who would, in my opinion, be teaching the history of the Bible objectively, with no religious slant whatsoever.  Again, I'm sure alot of religious people would disagree that this person was being objective.
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"If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table." - old legal aphorism
vege^
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2008, 02:37:40 pm »

I just don't understand what the fuss is about - isn't it an elective course anyway? So if you're really offended by it, simply don't take the course. If you sign up for the course, it means that you want to learn about it. I don't see the "Texas sized stupidity" in that.
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dusty
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2008, 07:44:56 pm »

Ruckus is disrespectful, just ignore him.
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Ruckus
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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2008, 02:33:21 am »

dusty is fat and you cant ignore that
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dusty
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2008, 04:35:12 am »

Case in point. b&
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Ruckus
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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2008, 11:57:13 am »

cmon dusty  u know i love you
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Zeradul
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2008, 05:55:39 pm »

I just don't understand what the fuss is about - isn't it an elective course anyway? So if you're really offended by it, simply don't take the course. If you sign up for the course, it means that you want to learn about it. I don't see the "Texas sized stupidity" in that.

The problem comes from this being a public school, and teaching of religion is not allowed with government money.  The fact that it is elective is irrelevant.  With that said, you could still teach about the "History" of who wrote the Bible, and the persons who edited it, but, lets face it, most likely in Texas, these classes are going to go beyond the mere history of the Bible and infuse some religion into the class.

Since there is relatively little known history involving the Bible itself, an acceptable alternative would be to have a class called "History of Theology" and then cover all sorts of religions over time, how they came about, what they believe, etc.  That would be legal to do in a public school, with public money.

That's why there is a "fuss" about this issue.
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"If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table." - old legal aphorism
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