Sarah Failin

[Ruckus]

Gotta make a topic of her now.  LOLOLOL   Fuck, I hope she runs for President.  lololololol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/09/stewart-takes-on-palins-h_n_454824.html

[Garr]

I didn't watch her. But i don't like how republicans are riding in the sail of this tea party thing. Everyone who speaks has some tool to use to help them. Obama has a teleprompter, other people use index cards or a pad. She just happened to write on her hand (which i find difficult unless you have a sharpie).  She is already tainted either way. I want to see an unknown run for president who sticks to their values and isn't swayed by lobbyists, special interests or the media and isn't associated with the democrats or republicans (like that will ever happen). These parties are playing tug of war with everyone else as the rope. Give it enough tension pulling from both sides and it eventually snaps and both lose.

[Ruckus]

There are plenty of competent republicans to run for President in 2012. She is not one of them and never will be.

[Stinger]

Obama has a teleprompter,

I'm not particularly happy with how horribly he handled health care, but the man doesn't need a teleprompter to talk. He ripped the republicans a new asshole last week off the top of his head. Smart people use teleprompters when they want to use exact phrasing in exactly the right order.

I'd like to see anyone give 30 minute speeches without a teleprompter and not miss something.

As for Palin... I watched a little of her tea party address, and found it to be the same tired rhetoric. It's depressing that anyone is behind her at this point. There's nothing wrong with being a conservative, but there is something wrong with backing an idiot.

[Ruckus]

lol Right on Stinger    and Colbert just abuses her. She is such a fucking ret-   no wait,  hypocrite


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/09/colbert-sarah-palin-is-a_n_454744.html

[Stinger]

I actually turned off the Palin post-speech Q&A at about the point where she was asked what the next leaders of America needed to do, and she answered "Listen to God."

If the current president of the United States came out in public and said that he was taking his domestic and foreign policy advice from his closest adviser, his invisible friend Bubbles the Beaver, I don't think anyone in America wouldn't be calling for him to step down.

It's the "Jesus take the wheel" thing. Who's heard that song? The first verse talks about a woman who's driving down the road at 50 MPH with her infant child in the backseat when all of the sudden she hits a patch of black ice and spins out of control. This woman responds to this by throwing her hands up in the air and shouting "Jesus take the wheel!"

...

That song got Carrie Underwood a Grammy. Let me ask the christians in the audience a question: If you were in a car with a friend who responded to a dangerous driving situation by taking his hands off the steering wheel and shouting "This one's on you, Jesus. Make it happen!", would you think that your friend was taking the best possible course of action?

I don't know about you, but I'd punch my friend in the face and grab a hold of the steering wheel myself in one swift, fluid motion.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not just bashing christianity. I don't mind at all that our current president, or the last president, or any public official is christian. If it makes them happy, I'm happy for them. But this country is NOT a christian nation, nor should it be. It's a melting pot of christians, muslims, jews, buddhists,  atheists, and everything else you can think of.

A leader that doesn't know how to speak and act for all of us shouldn't be speaking or acting for any of us.

[Stinger]

Also, it's unfair of Sarah to go after Barack for using a teleprompter; He can't write notes on his hand, black ink wouldn't show up!

She's just so damned racist...

[Zeradul]

Fuck, I hope she runs for President.  lololololol

There is zero chance of that. 

1.) She was clearly just an absurd attempt to capture the "Hillary" vote, once Hillary wasn't on the ticket.  They just picked the highest ranking republican willing to go along for the ride.  As a historian and philosopher I listen to put it: "McCain's Hail Mary"

2.) She is clearly not mentally sharp enough to survive a presidential debate, even if the questions are planned ahead of time and her responses scripted.

3.) She resigned from her office in a very strange set of circumstances, and whatever they may be, they probably revolve around something yet that hasn't come to be public knowledge.

4.) She is now a Fox News contributor, and thus she is extremely valuable figurehead, leading a giant group of poorly educated, middle aged women, -especially those with children out of wedlock and various marital woes-, around and will very effectively get them to tune into Fox News, and keep them voting republican for years to come.  Also note that the women that follow her are also largely a demographic that often vote democratic.  She is far too valuable to the Republicans for this reason alone to be pulled out to go campaign for herself.  She will never hold another office.

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Also, this "Tea Party" nonsense Fox News has picked on in the past, whenever they say something that doesn't fit with Fox's current agenda, however, with Tancredo and Palin speaking at it, let there be no doubt to what it is.

[stas]

She is still a milf. Its all good!

[kai]

4.) She is now a Fox News contributor, and thus she is extremely valuable figurehead, leading a giant group of poorly educated, middle aged women, -especially those with children out of wedlock and various marital woes-, around and will very effectively get them to tune into Fox News, and keep them voting republican for years to come.

Oooh can you just smell that superiority oozing out, people? I can.

[Stinger]

Since it's been proven time and time again (and yes, this has been proven in the literal sense of the word repeatedly) that Fox News openly lies to its viewers, it's not a stretch to call the people who watch it and insist that it's factual poorly-educated. You know, seeing as how they take education from Fox News, that handles that job poorly.

I mean, these are the people that gave Oliver North a job. I turned on Fox News last week for just a little while, and saw him calling the effort to repeal "Don't ask, don't tell" a "stunning assault on the all-volunteer military." Letting gay people take a bullet for their country whilst simultaneously NOT lying to everyone around them about who they really are is hardly a "radical social experiment," and anyone who says otherwise has well-earned being called ignorant.

But that's less of a flat-out lie, and more of a North taking the brunt of my "liberal bias," right? And bias really is the issue, here. Fox doesn't report the news, they report a biased slant of the news. Undeniable, proven time and time again, complete with leaked internal memos that say just that. "God help you if you don't follow the talking points," for example.

So... Yeah. Zera actually wasn't saying that he's superior to a Fox News viewer. But you know what? I'll say that, in a purely intellectual sense, he is.

When you're talking about knowledge, which is NOT a subjective concept, "superiority" isn't an arrogant thing to discuss. By it's very definition, the ignorant are improperly informed. Someone who takes his knowledge from historians, professors and unbiased journalists as opposed to Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity does in fact hold a superior level of knowledge.

And when Sarah (and at least 1 other Fox News personality that I know of) says something like, for example, Abdulmutallab "lawyered up and invoked our U.S. constitutional right to remain silent," and a Fox News viewer goes on about his day believing just that, and debating that point angerly with anyone who wasn't improperly informed...

Yeah. I have no problem with saying that anyone who knows to ignore undeniable lies coming out of that propaganda machine masquerading as a news organization is certainly holding a level of knowledge superior to those who don't.

Call me an arrogant prick. Depending on the day, I won't even disagree. Luckily, I'm adorable.

[kai]

arrogance defending arrogance. mmm tasty.

all the major news organizations are biased because they are all run by humans. fox news is more blatantly biased (despite their disingenuous catchphrase) but maybe if you saw things from the other side you would notice how the people of msnbc, cbs, abc, and cnn slant things and bring on their "experts" to promote their own views.

there are plenty of smart people that will switch on fox news occasionally to see what the conservative news/talking heads say about what's going on. let's face it, people care about different things and different networks will cover different things. cnn covered what restaurants President Obama goes to, and fox news makes sure he keeps his word about broadcasting the health care debate on cspan. they all serve their purpose

[Stinger]

I didn't name any of the organizations you just listed as unbiased journalists, did I? Though I'd argue that claiming all of those stations as equally "biased" as fox is just flat-out wrong, as fox does hold the title as the least worthy of the name "news" out of the bunch.

And I didn't say that smart people can't watch Fox. I said that people who take from Fox News their ideas of how the world really works are ignorant. And I stand by it.

[Stinger]

Oh, and most of the health-care debate was televised. [edit] Though admittedly not on cspan [/edit] And if you'll read a newspaper, you'll note that Obama has challenged the republicans to have a complete debate on just that this week on TV, and it's the republicans that are being whiny little bitches about it.

Again; I find Obama's handling of health-care to be truly horrible. I just think it's ridiculous that the worst things his opposition are saying about him are, at best, half-truths.

There's plenty about what he's doing that is legitimately ineffective. It's just stupid to start making up new things.

[Garr]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/02/11/roland.martin.palin/index.html?hpt=T2

this guy said it better than I could ever articulate

Why haven't I cottoned to Palin? Because she portrays herself as a straight-talking politician who wants to lead a movement in the "Lower 48th" -- but is nothing more than a political celebrity willing to cash every check she can grab.

[Zeradul]

Superiority?

What did I say that isn't true?

I'm sorry if saying her followers are poorly educated without backing it up seemed like a cheap shot.  Yes it is a generalization, I'm sure she has a few well educated supporters.  If you respect Palin's views, and are not embarrassed that your vice Presidential candidate does not know why there is a North Korea and a South Korea, then you probably aren't too well educated yourself.  Maybe that is a leap, but Palin's parents' generation fought the Korean war, and she is a woman that has been in politics her entire life.

Basic recent world history is not too much to expect, and I suggest that the people who continue to support Palin despite her seemingly endless knowledge gaps are going to in general, be poorly educated.  I personally find it embarrassing that someone like herself ever won an election in our country, much less rose to be on the ballot as vice president.

Matt Damon explained it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk

[Zeradul]

Though I'd argue that claiming all of those stations as equally "biased" as fox is just flat-out wrong

Correct.  If you watch the whole recent John Stewart vs Bill O'Reilly interview, even Bill admits that now Fox claims that is is now "about half news, half opinion".  O'Reilly suggests that everyone knows that his show, as well as Hannity, Beck, the late night show, and others are not news at all, but that they are purely opinion shows, where the hosts are merely voicing their opinions, and not actually news at all.

I guess I was left wondering by that statement what parts of Fox News now is actually "News", as O'Reilly didn't address that.

So it's a big leap forward, because now I can at least show anyone who thinks Fox News is unbiased, and as O'Reilly put it, "noone is that stupid" "everyone knows this is an opinion show".

[Garr]

kind of like MTV not having anymore music videos

[Ruckus]

kind of like MTV not having anymore music videos

and 'jersey shore' is the Sarah Palin show

[Garr]

kind of like MTV not having anymore music videos

and 'jersey shore' is the Sarah Palin show

They could call her S-Lo

and then you can go on the show and punch her

[Stinger]

Calling me a joke? Good thing I'm not a moderator, or I'd delete your whole post because of your ad hominem attack.

Seriously; If you're going to be lumping Zera and I together, I'd like you to clarify what exactly about my position you find comical.

[Mnementh]

Good point.  I forgot I was in Speaker's Corner.  Post deleted.

[Stinger]

Hmm? Well OK then, but I'm pretty sure you knew I was being a smart-ass.

I was actually pleased to see the enthusiasm. I'm just damned curious what about my well-articulated opinion you thought could be refuted just by calling me a joke. Please, tell me what's wrong about the following statement:

People who take their facts from known liars are by definition ignorant.

[Zeradul]

I too would welcome back the debate loving Mnem.  It's been far too long.

Not sure what bizarro world would see him defending Palin or Fox though, although I missed the deleted post whatnot.

[kai]

I guess I was left wondering by that statement what parts of Fox News now is actually "News", as O'Reilly didn't address that.

Well they don't show the opinion shows all day mang. The rest of the day you get anchors providing conservative news just like cnn does on loop until Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer (did he leave or just Dodd?) come on.

[kai]

Superiority?

What did I say that isn't true?

I'm sorry if saying her followers are poorly educated without backing it up seemed like a cheap shot.  Yes it is a generalization, I'm sure she has a few well educated supporters.  If you respect Palin's views, and are not embarrassed that your vice Presidential candidate does not know why there is a North Korea and a South Korea, then you probably aren't too well educated yourself.  Maybe that is a leap, but Palin's parents' generation fought the Korean war, and she is a woman that has been in politics her entire life.

Basic recent world history is not too much to expect, and I suggest that the people who continue to support Palin despite her seemingly endless knowledge gaps are going to in general, be poorly educated.  I personally find it embarrassing that someone like herself ever won an election in our country, much less rose to be on the ballot as vice president.

Matt Damon explained it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk

You see, not everyone pays attention or cares really about all the details about a person. We all have weaknesses, and they don't all get picked up the media to play over and over again. I have never taken trigonometry or calculus because when I got to geometry in high school I had a horrible student teacher that was boring and talked like Kermit the Frog. I got stuck taking remedial math because I was falling asleep in geometry. Now I have a Master's degree but I know fuckall about what a lot of people took in high school. So I'm willing to forgive Sarah Palin for not knowing too much about Korea. I mean most people think that was another Vietnam, when in fact it was a huge ass UN-approved operation that was fought on a peninsula that wasn't full of jungle. It was basically fought like World War II (with a lot of WWII equipment too) with front lines and more effective naval support. I mean she was a PTA mom and that's the attraction, she's not some Ivy league kid who can recite Hamlet for you, she's seen as more in touch with the 99% of the population that didn't go to an Ivy league school. So no, her supporters also aren't that concerned that she couldn't come up with other Supreme Court decisions off the top of her head because she isn't a lawyer and she doesn't need to know them off the top of her head.

EDIT: And let us not forget the king of dumbass gaffes in politics today is none other than the VP Joe Biden.

[Stinger]

Kai... With respect, buddy, you're not running for high office.

   I'm with you that there's nothing inherently wrong, or "stupid," with not knowing every politically relevant fact. You don't know advanced math, and that's actually a weakness I share. But you and I don't go out of our way to put ourselves into discussions that require us to know advanced math.

   That's just not a good defense for whats-her-face. I'm sorry brother, but it's 100% unacceptable for the President of the United States not to know that North and South Korea are separate entities. Or that Africa is a continent. Or to be able to name a single magazine or newspaper she reads. Or to say her foreign policy experience is that she can keep an eye on Putin from her house. Or what three countries are in the North American Trade agreement (Here's a hint: There are two countries in North America, and only one other that touches).

   Or that the Vice President, the job she was campaigning for, was in charge of the fucking senate.

   That's the short list, by the way.

   There is no excuse for Sarah Palin to be completely and totally ignorant in the realm of knowledge that is required to run the country when she is trying to get people to let her run the country.

   Comparing a lack of math skills to that is not a like comparison. That's comparing apples to horse shit. The closest thing to what you've said that I'll agree with is the following; Sarah Palin makes it really easy for people who don't know enough about their jobs to do them competently to relate with. That said, anyone who tells me that the President of the United States (which she could well have become had she become the VP) doesn't need to be more informed than the average American is just flat-out wrong.

   She wasn't struggling to hold down a middle management position somewhere that she didn't quite have the chops for, she was petitioning to run the most powerful country in the world. The differences are night and day.

[Stinger]

Oh, and Joe Biden kicked her ass in the VP debate, in no small part to him being way smarter (and more knowledgable) than her. And there's a big difference between a gaffe, and ignorance of the topics you're advertising yourself as competent on.

While we're sharing stories of self-deprecation, not only am I bad at math, but I'm dyslexic. The means I have a habit of saying things like "I lon't whoa what I dant for dunch." That doesn't mean I don't know what words were supposed to be in that sentence, it just means that it came out wrong.

Yet another reason going after people for using a teleprompter is just fucking stupid, and yet another example of an un-like comparison. Joe may be masterful at saying stupid things, but the man is very intelligent, and he can, and has, proven it time and time again.

[Zeradul]

I mean she was a PTA mom and that's the attraction

Exactly.

BTW, I think "gaffs" are one of the most stupid and detrimental things to our political system.  Clearly anytime you take anyone and have them speak at length you will have mistakes.  I'm not concerned about Palin or Biden, or ANYONE's "gaffs", and I think it's hurtful to the system to ever discuss them.

I have no doubt that it is her folksy PTA image that makes her very charismatic among her followers, but the Office of the President is a very important one.  You don't have to be an Ivy League douche, nor have a masters degree, nor any political experience.  BUT, I think that a solid understanding of recent world history, is an absolute necessity.  Was Obama, Clinton or W etc flawlessly prepared to be President?  Of course not, and it's never going to be perfect.  But not knowing basic world history of your parent's generation is like going to a walk-on tryout for the Yankees, and asking if the sport you're trying out for uses baseballs, softballs or whiffle balls.

I'm sorry but it's THAT asinine to me.

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And he would never admit this, but I have no doubt, that the real John McCain, (the one we saw pre 2006 when he started to change his image to run for president, you know, the anti-torture, prudent militarist) is physically sick to his stomach to hear his running mate say she doesn't know why there is a North and South Korea.  Poor John McCain.

[kai]

I'm working right now so I will debate when I get time but just a little page of history here:

"When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened." –Joe Biden, apparently unaware that FDR wasn't president when the stock market crashed in 1929 and that only experimental TV sets were in use at that time