TED Talk: Roger Ebert is Wrong about Video Games

[Zeradul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9y6MYDSAww&feature=player_embedded

A rebuttal to Roger Ebert's recent claim that video games not only are not art, but they can never be art.  She goes through and uses all the obvious rebuttals "it's a new art form, just like any new form of art, it takes a while to evolve" and she gives endless crushing examples for paintings, music, storytelling, and movies (etc).

This whole thing is good, and she doesn't even mention how everyone considers architecture to be art, and of course games have that.  But if you want to skip to the profound portion, it begins at 11:30.

When I look at the evolution of the two most powerful mediums of the 20th century, radio and television.....we dismissed them as simple, as fun, as mindless entertainment....and that's what they became, to the point of becoming somewhat destructive to our culture as honoring the superficial and the empty.

[Stinger]

I hadn't heard that Ebert said that... Yeah, that's wrong on so many levels.

What was the first video game that blew you away as "art?"

If we're speaking purely visually, I'd say Alice had me floored. One of the most immersive and beautiful games I ever played.

Oh, and World of Goo! If that's not art I don't know what is.

[Zeradul]

Well I think she's right in saying that video games are still in the early stages.

The most artistic I think I've played is probably GTA 4.  It's artistic on so many levels.  The radio stations alone contain dozens of hours of onion.com quality humor, satire, and all around witty-ness commentary about the world.  The attention to detail when recreating Manhattan in a near 1-1 ratio is absolutely staggering.

Also the storyline is a decent story, with endless morality plays, many of them different morality conflicts within the main character and his friends.  One particularly poignant moment was when the main character (a Russian immigrant) is told by a friend or associate that he is going to have a hard time becoming a citizen in this country because we are no longer accepting of most immigration, and the conversation between characters takes place in a park with a view of the Statue of Liberty, and the statue is framed in the background between the main character and the person he is talking with.  Powerful to say the least.  If I could remember the name of that mission, I'm sure someone has that up on youtube, but I cannot find it.

Endless moments like that in GTA 4, one of the most awesomely moral video games.  Most of the morals being good ones, but even when the morals portrayed aren't good per se, they are at least explained and demonstrated as being the best option available to character, and depict the facts of black markets, crime, citizenship, law, corruption, etc.  Many times the game shows how crime results in "kill or be killed" circumstances, and I'm not saying that either route is morally sound, I'm just saying that the game eloquently shows how illegal activity often results in terrible circumstances for all involved, as well as police, and innocent people who can and do become accidental victims.

[Garr]

Video games aren't art yet you have an exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art here in Manhattan that consists of naked people standing in front of each other. How is THAT art? It's just naked people.

[Stinger]

Eh, actually I'd argue that the naked human body is art. At least women... Men are all hairy and gross.

GTA4 is likely my favorite game of all time, but oddly enough I hadn't considered it art until you said that, Zera. Of course I agree, it's every bit a work of art that a great movie is, plus some. I played that game well over a hundred hours (and don't plan on stopping anytime soon) and I constantly find new things that I haven't seen, with an attention to detail that's stunning.

[Zeradul]

Garr, I read your sentence two ways.  Did you mean you don't think video games aren't art?  or are you saying that they obviously are art if something absurd as naked statues are?

That said, I think a work like Michelangelo's David is absolutely art, but not because it is of a person, but because of the sculpting tools used to make it and the immense skill that required.

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GTA 4's storyline was not nearly as good as San Andreas', also I felt that while far more complex, the driving physics engine, and car damage engine was superior but actually less realistic because GTA4's physics appear to happen in "slow mo" almost, like movie physics for cars.  The GTA 4 driving engine was superior in one big way though, finally a realistic portrayal of acceleration, particularly as the sports cars continue to accelerate.  GTA 3 had some speed barrier you could not break, instead your vision just got blurrier to make it seem like you were still accelerating.  GTA 4's skidding, rear brake turns, and drifting were all terrible.  Drifting being so important, yet nearly non-existent except in the top 2 sports cars, and even then, not at all consistent at high speed.

For me, driving like a maniac, (and not losing control) is a big part of the fun, so overall I was disappointment with GTA 4's driving.

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I think the most poignant idea the TED speaker conveys is this:  Sure, video games are in their early days, but there is no limit for what is possible.  They will only remain shitty and simple as TV did if noone expects more out of them.

She's right, Games are already a WAY bigger industry than all of Hollywood media companies combined.  The storylines may be infantile or simplistic FOR NOW, but as competition in the market forces gaming companies to get more creative, there is no reason why this artistic medium cannot or will not improve dramatically.

Gene Roddenberry thought that this is absolutely where technology is headed.  If we ever do create a Holodeck style type of immersive entertainment, then why wouldn't "Holo-Novels" (where you participate in a story, one that your actions determine or influence the outcome) why wouldn't that art form (read: advanced video game) absolutely obsolete movies almost overnight (and by overnight I mean a few decades)  Sure there will probably always be a market for "passive" tv or movie style entertainment, but we've already seen more money spent TODAY on video games than on movies and TV. (I think the last number I saw was that video games are 6 times more $$ than hollywood)

[Garr]

I am saying games are obviously art if you could display 2 naked people in front of each other and claim that art as well (since it really isn't much of a creation by the artist)

[vege^]

shadow of the colossus is a whole lot better than a lot of the "art" out there.

[QB3RT]

katamari damacy

if you rolled up any shit and said it was art, it would be art. 

alas, katamari is only a game that imitates art

now asteroids on that atari, that was art...  didn't matter how many times you flipped the digits, it would never end.  As soon as a game can't be completed successfully it's no longer a game.

[Merc248]

http://depts.washington.edu/critgame

i took a class on RPG's from that collective a few years ago.  it was interesting to say the least.

game studies is an emerging field of media studies that's gaining more and more traction.

[wargasm]

I can't fathom what Ebert's definition of art is, but I would say that art is anything created to elicit an emotional response.  Hell, even Nintendo at least qualifies on the level of fingerpaintings and Playdoh sculpture.

Then again, I feel absolutely no emotion when I become a cold-blooded killing machine so maybe he has a point.