What are you guys’ thoughts on the big three possibly going under ?
Loan them money or let them file chapter 11 … what do you advise ?
I understand there are a lot of problems directly associated with letting them fail, BUT
We cannot afford to bail them out, plain and simple. We can’t afford to bail anyone out, much less a failing, obsolete, non-competitive industry like the auto manufacturers.
Especially at this moment in auto history, we need new fresh companies to compete with the old technologies. We need electric cars, hydrogen cars, and other new technologies to take over. The last thing we want is to give ANOTHER unfair advantage to the dieing industry of internal combustion auto makers. I see this as similar to the stupid laws and taxes passed to continued to help the well established “telegraph” industry, which at the time (and ever since) HURT the far superior telephone industry. Many of those taxes TO THIS DAY still show up on your phone bills.
Let them fail if they cannot survive on their own. Their assets, buildings, etc will be sold off as chunks of the company to other more successful companies, and many of the employees will be re-hired to work nearly the same job. Hell if TESLA (electric car company) can buy up a factory at half of it’s value, what a wonderful thing.
I know Obama has already discussed this potential, and if he does something so short sighted I will be very disappointed that he is continuing Bush’s legacy of free hand-outs to failing companies. (which is big government socialism at it’s absolute worst)
let them rot.
let them file chapter 7.
i like what Michael Moore said on Larry King
buy them out, fire management, and change them to create fuel efficient public transportation vehicles.
let em tank
Let’s really subscribe to the idea of survival of the fittest and let these inefficient companies collapse.
GDI people, in a year I’ll have the minivan paid off … Sandy said I could buy a Dodge Charger R/T then … LETS BAIL THEM OUT
LOLOL
including GE? 
STAS DON’T SPEAK THAT WAY ABOUT THE MOTHER COMPANY. They will find you.
How many of you work in the industry? I can say that I wouldn’t say fuck anything that was not in “MY” interest like some of you are obviously doing. This is not a bailout, its a loan. The banks got a bailout and then proceeded to have million dollar parties. How many of their CEO’s were required to leave for the FREE FUCKING MONEY they received?
Ford seems like they can get by without the money but are asking for a safety net. GM has so much overhead that it needs to restructure, this would include as they have said, dropping the shitty cars like Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer I think a few more. I don’t know much about Chrysler but I thought they were part owned by Germans? If that is the case then Germany should be involved in these talks.
Bottom line N.A.F.T.A. (worst thing EVER conceived by democrats) started the downfall, the banks escalated it. To get out of it it may require a LOAN, unlike what the banks got BAILOUT.
Wrap me two HUMMERs to go please.
kthxbye
i want to be a new auto czar. i have all the needed qualifications for being one.
I am skeptical on a lot of things Michael Moore presents to the public, but I will say he is right on what he has said about the BIG Three. On my own personal views, I think they should rot. Bailout, Loan, or whatever the fuck you want to call it, its MY hard earned tax dollars being spent on these Wallstreet yahoos and automakers that have been warned time and time again to keep up with the changing times. The Big Three have repeatedly turned their heads, continued to build these gas guzzling pieces of shit that fall apart after 2 years and now look what has happened. They build and build and build and no buyers. Times have changed and the warnings were as real as they can get and smacked these CEO’s in the fucking faces but yet they still keep the 50+ year old business model and have yet to change.
Now, these idiots go to Washington to sit before Congress and get grilled over why they are overpaid, incompetent, selfish greedy pigs. They fly in on private jets and only after getting grilled do they kiss ass and come back in these shitty, plastic toy looking cars to show they are “green” supportive. Give me a fucking break. And here the Gov’t says “you will work for $1 a year”… How about…your fucking fired!
What needs to happen is this…
NO LOANS, BAILOUT ETC… Let them restructure in Bankruptcy. If they fail, there will most certainly be new and improved companies that will buy out old company assets and come out with a business model that will be good for decades to come. Focusing on Electric motors, safe Hydrogen cells, solar energy, etc. The time has come to let failing businesses that have been warned to either help themselves or fail. None of this bailout crap that justs keeps adding to our Federal Deficit and causing our dollar to slip day after day.
In short…FUCK the Big Three…there will be new jobs with new prosperous companies that know how to do business.
Well Chew there’s a big problem with your" fuck them let them die" approach. If just one of the big three goes under countless parts suppliers and support companies go with them. Thus causing pain not only to the 2 left but Toyota, Honda, and basically any other domestic manufacturer. The layoffs themselves would cripple an already shitty job market and cost boo-coo bucks in unemployment benefits (paid by the taxpayer) and health insurance. You figure, they have paid health coverage now but if they loose their jobs and benefits then they put an increased strain on the already bursting health care system cost wise. And so do the retirees all 400k plus. Toyota has 700 or so …
Another HUGE propaganda piece from the right is the cost per worker. Give Honda and Toyota 75 more years and they will cost the same. Hell give the UAW 3 more years … Retirees are a larger portion of that $70 an hour bullshit your hear on faux news and the 700 club. The UAW took a huge concession last year to shift the health care to the union in like a 3 year implementation. It is projected that in 3 years once it has been shifted that GM workers will actually cost less per hour than Toyota workers. Approx $45 an hour or so.
Fuck you Hannity, Limbaugh and Pat Robertson for spewing that misinformation. Lets take money from the workers who have no input in the companies direction and give the executives who control the wheel a free ride. Fucking Hypocrites. OH and A CEO working for a dollar a year ROFL hes still richer than all of his employees put together across the board… what a crock of fucking shit.
[quote=“Ruckus,post:15,topic:2322”]
Nope. Just because you eliminate the management, by letting a company die as a result of their incompetence, doesn’t change the market demand they were filling. Those part suppliers will have some rough patches, but the new ventures that spring up to compete where Ford and GM could not. Most of those current Ford and GM employees will be hired back by the new companies, and they only thing that will truly die from this period of growth is shitty cars, and shitty corporate management.
I believe what your saying Ruck about the Union and pay etc. The problem I have is that it is totally unfair for these big companies who have a failing business model to be bailed out, yet the poor mom and pop businesses across America suffering because of economic issues don’t get any help. Its the honest, hard working people who built businesses from the ground up who get fucked. That really bothers me. I want my tax dollars to go help the mom and pop shops, not these fucking crooks who run these companies the wrong way and knowingly do so.
Like I said, let them file Bankruptcy, if they can’t restructure, fuck em. I know lots of jobs, etc will be lost…BUT new companies will spawn and those employees will be rehired. I think it will benefit the economy…maybe not in the short coming, but nothing is going to happen for the good overnight anyway, so why not do whats logical and what will benefit the American People in the long run.
BTW the Airlines were in far worse shape after 9/11 than the automakers and after many Airlines filed Chapter 11 they survived or merged. I think the automakers need to take a lesson because the air travel industry is just as important if not MORE than the auto industry is.
Let me see if I understand what is acceptable to some of you, over three hundred thousand in GM alone losing their jobs, possibly homes and that is ok. All the resteraunts, roach coaches that will close down when all the small shops and big ones close down is ok. All the communities that will lose tax money from these businesses and employees, will need to cut police, fire, education ect. is OK. The estimated 750,000 people that work in all the small businesses related the the big companies will lose their jobs, and probably homes, that is OK too.
They can not file chapter 7, that is personal. They file chapter 11 business.
Maybe I don’t fully understand bankruptcy, but I have dealt with companies that have declared bankruptcy on us and it is a VERY long time before you can even hope to get any money from them. Four to six months on average.. IF any of the three file chapter 11 the THOUSANDS of suppliers DO NOT GET PAID. That would literally close the doors of thousands of suppliers since the banks are not willing to help anyone but their CEO’s. (Hooray they are taking care of business by paying out all the bonuses they missed paying themselves over the past 6 months)
BTW who is going to pay for those people that lose their jobs? OH the government… Unemployment is already at 10% in my state, the estimates are around 250,000 in my state additional if they go under. Lets do the math… Unemployment is at $400 per week times 250,000 additional layoffs for a MINIMUM of six months. That is ONE BILLION per week in unemployment. so either LOAN the big three the 15 to 20 billion they are asking for now and keep everyone working OR potentially dish out 26 BILLION in my state alone for unemployment. That 26 billion is in my state alone! If you also add the taxes the each state would lose if people are collection unemployment and not paying income tax is just insane. Think about all the other states that would have to pay out similar amounts, like Alabama, North and South Carolina, Illinois, Indiana.
Think bigger than one company people.
How can new business start when our banks are still not giving loans to start or even maintain a current business. The company I work for is successful, we are not in debt, however we have had our credit snipped in half. HOW would you propose IN THE REAL WORLD a business to expand and prosper with this REAL situation?
My 98 Blazer will never die!!
Mystic, dude. I hear what you’re saying, but in your scenario, no company jumps in to replace that demand they were filling.
The assets of those companies, buildings, factories, and employees will mostly get bought up by investors who plan to fill the void left by the death of those giants.
The demand for cars may be less than it was in the past, but noone can change that, but that demand exists no matter what happens. If these monstrosity corporations are too old and fat to deal with a little economic bump in the road, then their day has come. It’s time to start fresh.
It’s just like re-installing an operating system. Out with the old, cruddy, buggy, and inefficient one, and in with the new, fresh, and unencumbered one. Nothing fundamentally changes, but you do get rid of the fundamental problems with the old one.